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jordan179 - No Point Complaining About Obama if We Don't Elect a Republican Congress
February 8th, 2014
01:16 am

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No Point Complaining About Obama if We Don't Elect a Republican Congress
There is no point complaining about Obama and his Administration unless we are going to elect a Republican Congress this year.

It's obvious by now that not only does Obama not take the hint that he is overstepping his Constitutional authority, but that he actually revels in doing so, because he sees the Constitutional limits on his office as a handicap, something to be overcome.  He is actively trying to set a precedent that the Executive Authority is unbound by the limits the Founders set upon the office.

Why he's doing this is not entirely clear.  I think what is going on is that he -- unlike any other person ever elected to the Presidency of the United States of America -- grew up actually idolizing the Third World despots who most sane American find either disgusting or laughable.  He's trying to govern America as if he were such a despot, and as long as we let him get away with it, he's succeeding.

Most Presidents, even fairly power-hungry ones, have been restrained by the knowledge that if they pushed too far they could be impeached and convicted and wind up doing time in Federal prison for their actions.  The actual sequence of impeachment and conviction wasn't necessary to restrain them -- they understood the system well enough to grasp that this could really happen to them, and so they backed off in the ultimate confrontations with the Congress and the Courts.

Obama isn't backing down.  The leaders he grew up idolizing, when they faced similar confrontations, dealt with their Congress and Courts by ignoring them, and if necessary sending in mobs or even troops to intimidate them into silence.  That won't work here, but Obama doesn't know it, and by the time things get that far, we'll be in truly deep trouble as a Republic.

Plus, Obama simply doesn't think things that far through.  All he knows is that he wants his own way and he's going to get it.  He has the mindset of a cranky child, but he's a cranky child with considerable power at his disposal, which makes him dangerous.

The Democrats are never going to turn on Obama.  They are so happy with themselves for electing a Genuine Black Man (well, half-black, one-quarter Arab and one-quarter African Black, but then Math Class Was Hard for them) to the White House that they regard it as anathema to seek any more information about Obama than his skin tone.  They notice that his illegalities are helping them win elections, but they are almost as bad as Obama at thinking things through and they are not considering the implications of the power Congress will lose if the President can make laws by fiat.  Anyway, the current crop of Congresscritters will have status, heck the Senate still had status in Rome centuries after it lost all real power, so why should they care?

The Republicans may or may not turn on Obama.  A lot depends on them having a majority and the size of their majority.  Generally speaking, Congressional Republicans in the minority will not take the political risks needed to bring down the Obama Administration -- those with a slight majority may take some risks, and if they can get a two-thirds majority they will almost definitely bring him down.

The more Republicans who get voted into office in 2014 -- even freakin RINO's -- the greater the chance that something effective will be done to lame Obama's Administration, and -- who knows? -- maybe even put some of the worst bastards like Eric Holder in Federal Prison where he so richly deserves to spend some time.  This last proviso is important, because we need a firm deterrent against this happening again, or the Republic is toast.  And not just half a century or more in the future, where I safely put it in my Mandate fiction.  Within a decade or two.

It's that bad.  We either have to start reversing the damage Obama's doing, or in 25 or so years, we'll be living in a Republic In Name Only.

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From:galadrion
Date:February 8th, 2014 11:30 am (UTC)
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I doubt our country will really be in much deeper trouble than it is already; November 22nd, 1963 didn't destroy the country, and neither will whatever date the nutjob that takes out the Second Camelot Sponsor succeeds on. And I'm sad to say that I'm considering the possibility more and more likely - from his actions, it almost looks like Obama has been courting martyrdom... although he also appears to not believe that it's possible that it could happen to him. After all, is he not the Lightbringer?

Meh, not really going anywhere with this. It's just that it's 3:30 in the morning, and I'm not awake enough to follow what passes for a liberal's reasoning.
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From:jordan179
Date:February 9th, 2014 01:26 am (UTC)
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November 22nd, 1963 didn't destroy the country, and neither will whatever date the nutjob that takes out the Second Camelot Sponsor succeeds on.

Three Presidents were assassinated before Kennedy. And I so deeply do not want to see Obama made into a martyr, a blank slate onto which the Millennials and Homelanders can write whatever ideal personality they .
wish he had.

Anyway, even if someone attempting to assassinate Obama would be a good thing (which it wouldn't be) it probably wouldn't work. Most assassination attempts fail.

It certainly wouldn't act as a deterrent to future tyrants. They'd simply draw the lesson "have tighter security." Only the rejection of Obama and his Administration can deter others from following in his course.
From:galadrion
Date:February 9th, 2014 02:01 am (UTC)
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Even that rejection wouldn't prevent the next one from the same course. The people in the offices aren't the ones determining the course. The President, Congresscritters... they haven't been the ones determining policy in more than half a century.

Jordan, I know you're a fairly avid sci-fi reader. Have you read Spider Robinson's Very Hard Choices? If so, what did you think of the premise? (If not, I'd recommend it... just so I could hear what you think of it.)
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From:kharmii
Date:February 8th, 2014 12:50 pm (UTC)
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If Obama doesn't get challenged, it will tear this country apart. I already see signs everywhere of people being angry enough to start a civil war, or at least try to vote to break away from the major cities.
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From:gothelittle
Date:February 8th, 2014 01:07 pm (UTC)
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The part I find interesting is that there are many, many people who are not starting civil war, not talking about breaking away from major cities... in fact, many of them probably live in major cities... but they are simply starting to *ignore* the various edicts.

I saw three stories in a row over the course of a couple of days.

First story said that only a small fraction of people required to sign up through Obamacare have actually done so. Out of those who didn't, over half don't even know there is a deadline and most of the rest think the deadline will be "extended again".

Second story said that only something like 4% of Connecticut gun owners (who are actually as likely to be Democrats as Republicans) have complied with the new gun regulations. The deadline has been quietly rewritten. It may have to be rewritten again.

Third story showed that an increasing number of districts are completely abandoning Common Core. Even in the heart of New York City, so many students did not report to the new standardized testing that educators had to pick other means of evaluation. Entire states have already abandoned it.

It may be that Obama and his favored liberals will be rejected by the American people by simple, non-violent refusal to comply.
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From:belvarius
Date:February 8th, 2014 02:36 pm (UTC)
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"It may be that Obama and his favored liberals will be rejected by the American people by simple, non-violent refusal to comply."

One can hope, I certainly do! However, I do fear Kharmii is right about the level of anger in places. I fear that if things don't start getting better soon, say within a decade to 15 years, we may see some states make serious attempts to secede. I expect Texas will lead the way on that since they've made so much noise about it. Should that happen I don't doubt it will be long before my state, Oklahoma, attempts to join them.
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From:oxymoron02
Date:February 11th, 2014 06:37 am (UTC)
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The apathy of Americans towards following the rules, towing the line and maintaining the status quo makes me happy. I recently heard the argument that if deporting illegal immigrants can't happen because there are just too many to track down, process and prosecute, what happens when enough of us stand up and just say no to *pick an issue*?

I'm really trying not to give up hope on the political process, but both sides seem to just grow government. Admittedly different pet programs and public interests, but at this point does it really matter which agency is getting a budget increase? One side pays lip service to that group, the other to its opposition, both offer the solution of expanding government to fix the problem.
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From:marycatelli
Date:February 11th, 2014 08:10 pm (UTC)
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It's a bad thing, though. Once we learn indifference to the law, we will not selectively apply it only to bad laws. Just because it's not worse than alternative doesn't mean it's not bad.
From:mosinging1986
Date:February 16th, 2014 01:12 am (UTC)
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said that only a small fraction of people required to sign up through Obamacare have actually done so.

I have refused, on principle.
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From:banner
Date:February 8th, 2014 05:59 pm (UTC)
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The problem is, the GOP establishment is totally supporting Obama and are no different than the democrats. So unless there is a republican who is supported by the Tea Party in my area, I will not be voting for any Republicans at all.

The sooner it all collaspes and dies in a fire, the happier I'll be. Because the Republic is dead.
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From:eta_ta
Date:February 8th, 2014 08:08 pm (UTC)
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agree.
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From:justgoto
Date:February 8th, 2014 09:41 pm (UTC)
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Sadly, I also think this is true.
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From:jordan179
Date:February 9th, 2014 03:03 am (UTC)
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Do you really want to see the Republic fall? It won't be nice, it won't be pretty, it will probably take the form of several coups, civil wars and persecutions of the political opposition (different ones, depending on who's winning at the moment, and by "persecution" I mean "take them out and shoot them," not "deny them career advancement"). And when it's over, we'll be a military dictatorship in all but name.

That would be better than the leadership Obama is providing, but not better than Constitutional government of the sort I've known most of my life.
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From:ford_prefect42
Date:February 9th, 2014 07:11 am (UTC)
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The republic has already fallen. Continuing to defend the meaningless husk is not nobility.
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From:banner
Date:February 9th, 2014 04:48 pm (UTC)
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It has already fallen. We have a nascent SS forming in the guise of 'homeland security', when the formed that, it was the beginning of the end. We now have a president who has completely voided his oath and is ruling like a King breaking the law and doing what ever he feels like.
We have a Congress that won't even try to reign him in.
A Senate that has broken the law and not done its duty in over three years now.
And a Supreme Court that apparently doesn't seem to care all that much about the Constitution that it is supposed to enforce.

No, its dead. War is coming. Persecutions? Yeah, we got those already, we have people having their rights stripped away, being hounded by government institutions illegally and thrown in jail. The executions will take longer, but they're coming. You see until people really start to stand up and fight for themselves there is no need to go beyond destroying people's lives and throwing them in jail.

But as for Constitutional Government? We don't have that anymore, and we haven't had it for a while now.
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From:jordan179
Date:February 9th, 2014 08:16 am (UTC)
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You deeply fail to get it.

It won't "all collapse and die in a fire." It will become a military dictatorship. And, assuming you survive the violent and massive civil wars likely in the period of transition -- you know, the ones that will make the populace eagerly hail the ascent of the new Augustus who manages to end them -- you will only be "happy" assuming that your intent was to live in a military dictatorship. Which somehow I don't think it was.

Oh, if the United States falls apart? What makes you think that the successor states would be more democratic, libertarian or otherwise agreeable? The one thing they would be in that case is "balkanized." Look at the actual Balkans for an object lesson in how enjoyable that fate would be.
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From:belvarius
Date:February 9th, 2014 02:34 pm (UTC)
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Furthermore, if the U.S. collapses who's to say some foreign countries won't take the opportunity to try and seize a chunk of former U.S. territory? Mexico would dearly love to take huge portions of the Southwest back and resource hungry China would likely grab as huge a portion of the oil shale rich Rockies as possible. Yes it would likely be an incredibly bloody conflict since we are an armed nation but if we're already weakened by several years of internal conflict would those who are left be able to stop them?
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From:tagryn
Date:February 9th, 2014 03:01 pm (UTC)
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* Those who say we're in a dictatorship already do an injustice to those who've lived through an actual totalitarian state, such as Cuba or the USSR. To me, the fact that people who do criticize the government are not disappearing after doing so is evidence that we haven't dropped into that dark well. The possibility is there, but the reality isn't, at least not at this point.

Senator: You are not fit to be Emperor.
Claudius: I agree. But nor was my nephew.
Senator: So what difference is there between you?
Claudius: He would not have agreed. And by now your head would be on that floor for saying so.
- "I Claudius"

* I think a lot of the folks who seem to relish a survivalist "the centre does not hold" scenario where everyone's left to their own wits to survive really lack a realistic comprehension of what that would entail. Of course, they seem to assume that they will definitely survive the holocaust that would follow. Doubtful. "You're a civilized man; that will not be a survival characteristic," or what Hobbes said about life without society, "no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

* I don't think the answer lies in the Tea Party: they showed themselves to be too incompetent to rule during the last government shutdown. Who goes into a all-stakes confrontation like that, then demonstrates they had no plan once they were there? Fools. I suspect sometime in the near-to-middle future we'll see a populist candidate or movement emerge, perhaps with a dash of protectionism, who will surprise both parties and rally a lot of the frustration which has been brewing. I don't think that fellow is on the stage yet, though.
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From:banner
Date:February 9th, 2014 05:15 pm (UTC)
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No, I get it completely. Voting for the GOP isn't going to stop any of what you said from happening. Because the GOP leadership has sold us out. They WANT exactly what the democrats want: Power.
They want to be there for the rest of their lives, they're willing to take a smaller role over no roll at all.

Mainstream GOP = Democrats. They've lied to me for the last 8 years, so why would I continue to support them? I will no longer stand by them. They keep promising to 'change' and represent me, but that's just a lie.

As for Massive Civil Wars, why do you think the government is arming itself? Why do you think Homeland security is turning into the brownshirts? Look at the collapse of every republic in history, especially in the last 100 years, then look at us.

Looks rather similar, doesn't it?

I'm just wondering if we're going to have a French 'revolution', a German one, or a Russian one. Remember, our President's mentor is perfectly fine with having tens of Millions of Americans executed to get his way. Do you really think that Obama doesn't doesn't feel the same way?

Do you really think that I am NOT worried with typing things like this online? That I do not realize that by giving voice to these opinions that this conversation isn't being flagged into a special database inside the NSA?

That one day, a few years from now that I might get the dreaded 'knock on the door' which will mean a trip to 're-education' camps?

You forget that I was put under the microscope by the Clinton Administration for protesting them. At least the Clinton's only harassed you. Obama has had people jailed, and even declared a few enemies of the state and executed without due process.

No, I get it very very much. And I fear for my freedom. Because of the Clinton's I'm probably on a list somewhere, and you know how communists love their lists.
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From:eta_ta
Date:February 9th, 2014 04:51 pm (UTC)
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there is another option that you seem to undervalue: formation of a third party with gradual rise in importance and final substitution of Republican.
see Gallup: self-identification with (R) is 25-yr low.

I hope so.
(R) compromised themselves by their record of betraying their base. To vote for them is flagging a dead horse.

Edited at 2014-02-09 04:51 pm (UTC)
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From:jordan179
Date:February 10th, 2014 02:29 am (UTC)
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Third parties rarely work if the lead party is strongly organized, as the Democrats are right now. What usually happens is that they split the vote and the lead party wins the election. If that happens in 2016, the Republic may really be over -- I think that by 2020 the electoral system would be so badly compromised that come 2021, military leaders would for real start eyeing the roads to Washington DC.
From:jsl32
Date:February 10th, 2014 02:19 am (UTC)
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sorry, you're wrong on this one, and the people mentioning the unelected bureaucracy are right. it starts with making those guys uncomfortable, because they are at the state and local levels making it impossible to live normally. the politicians are not really the biggest problem right now. the whole dang country could be democrat-only and it would be better if the bureaucrats actually behaved like civil servants rather than petty tyrants with a pension.
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From:jordan179
Date:February 10th, 2014 02:21 am (UTC)
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I don't see any way for people who want to support the Constitution to "make those guys uncomfortable" without committing crimes and putting themselves right where the totalitarians want us to be -- namely, objectively guilty of what most people would consider serious crimes.
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From:ford_prefect42
Date:February 10th, 2014 02:55 am (UTC)
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By supporting the constitution, and challenging their ability to do their jobs in the court, complete with personal lawsuits for their rampant abuses of power.
From:jsl32
Date:February 10th, 2014 06:52 am (UTC)
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there are all kinds of ways long before you get to committing crimes.

it's quite disappointing that you can't think of any possible way to make a bureaucrat whose workplace is public and unguarded uncomfortable that isn't "crime".

they are paper tigers. they can't be voted out, but they can be made to actually serve the public or quit, and all without being "criminal" in the eyes of most people (even most liberal people).
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