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If the Saudis were behind 9-11 ... - jordan179
April 13th, 2016
06:19 am

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If the Saudis were behind 9-11 ...
Then our entire foreign policy from 2001 on has been insane, as it would mean that the main threat to American national security is Saudi Arabia.  If Saudi Arabia launched a war against us on 9-11-2001, starting that war with attacking civilian targets without a declaration of war and murdering civilians taken captive on the airliners, it means that no Rules of War apply to our treatment of the Saudis.  We should then begin the annihilation of Saudi Arabia, with the goal being depopulation of the Kingdom.  Destroy the cities, destroy the water sources, drive the people into the desert and let them try to swim like fish in the sea of the people ... of the Empty Quarter.  The desert wil ltake care of our problems for us.

As for the oil fields, annex them and never give them back.

Yes, I'm angry, but when it comes to the revelation that a supposed US ALLY has committed the worst act of war against us in the last century, and one which was itself exterminationst in approach, there is no sane reason for mercy.

Kill 'em all, let Allah sort them out.

ADDENDUM:  We should let them unconditionally surrender, as Japan did.  Unlike Japan, I'd say hang the royals.  Also, we keep the oil fields.  Forever.  They've shown they're not mature enough to handle the power that wealth can buy -- they can just kiss our feet like good little Arabs and thank us every time they see us for letting them live.If they resist after surrender, then kill a lot of them until the survivors beg to be allowed to surrender.

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[User Picture]
From:headnoises
Date:April 13th, 2016 04:11 pm (UTC)
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Problem- there's a difference between "Saudi Arabia was behind it" and "members of the (really freaking huge) royal family donated."

It's kind of like how what's his face, the KKK congress guy-- if he was still giving support to his old club, that doesn't mean "the US supports the Klan."

We *already know* that they give (personal, in theory) money, have for ages.

Over-decade-old article about it, here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/17/world/flow-of-saudis-cash-to-hamas-is-scrutinized.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

There's more open source stuff available, too.

****

I don't trust this sudden push for what amounts to an official, formal and public slap in the face to Saudi Arabia; it has been no secret at all that members of the royal family are doing this sort of thing, even the New York Times freaking noticed-- so who gains by making it so the Saudi gov't is forced to formally defend its filth stinking "honor"? What do we have right now with the 'polite' lies, even after Obama screwing around, that is such a big threat to someone?
[User Picture]
From:baron_waste
Date:April 13th, 2016 11:37 pm (UTC)
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I'm not sure in what sense Saudi Arabia is an “ally.”  Against what?  Russia, maybe, as against the Soviets in the past, but aside from grudgingly letting us base forces there during the Gulf War, the entente has never amounted to much.  They view the USA with contempt, as junkies for what they're pushing, and would see no reason not to act against Israel's chief enabler and most useful tool.


Now the king told the boogie men
You have to let that raga drop
The oil down the desert way
Has been shakin' to the top
The Sheik he drove his Cadillac
He went a-cruisin' down the ville
The muezzin was a-standing
On the radiator grille

Sharif don't like it
Rock the Casbah, rock the Casbah
Sharif don't like it
Rock the Casbah, Rock the Casbah…

By order of the prophet
We ban that boogie sound
Degenerate the faithful
With that crazy Casbah sound…



I still recall the “Nuke Their Ass and Take the Gas” t-shirts once available from Paladin Press and the like; or the burly US Marine jamming a Colt .45 into an Arab's face and saying, “HOW much is the oil, now?”


Click for Larger Image




Edited at 2016-04-13 11:56 pm (UTC)
[User Picture]
From:headnoises
Date:April 14th, 2016 12:36 am (UTC)
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Who said anything about them being an ally? They're an honor culture, not a guilt culture; the official public statements matter a lot more to them, while we're supposed to be able to look at the facts without it having to be an official announcement.

Russia is as good a guess as any for why news that's OVER A DECADE OLD is suddenly being pulled up. Maybe related to Syria?
Supposedly that mess is at least partly Saudi Arabia vs Iran.
F if I know who benefits the most.
[User Picture]
From:jordan179
Date:April 14th, 2016 03:59 am (UTC)
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If the news be true, Let Saudi Arabia be destroyed, even if the Heavens fall. I hope that some Presidential candidate runs with it, and the Saudis suffer for their perfidy.
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From:luagha
Date:April 14th, 2016 08:32 pm (UTC)
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The recent Panama Papers file dump about shell companies and hiding illicit money is big on other countries but has only a very few and very distant US connections. Therefore, it is posited to be a CIA file dump to mess with our enemies and give them something to deal with.

Thus, they will dump some information to mess with us and give us something to deal with.
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From:jordan179
Date:April 14th, 2016 03:57 am (UTC)
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Then extradite the guilty royals and punish them harshly. Or, if the Saudis refuse extraditions, punish their whole country harshly and take their oil, forever.

As for trusting or not trusting it, any country that supported 9-11 deserves severe punishment. Every year we let such insults go unavenged is a further threat to our security.

The spectacle of the richest and most presstigious Sunni nation being brought low, wrecked by American might and then deprived of the reources to rebuild, to spend their lies amidsst the ruins of their cities mourning what they lost, would be a salutary lesson to the whole Muslim world -- mess with America at your peril.

Getting the oil for ourselves would be but icing on the cake of vengeance.
[User Picture]
From:headnoises
Date:April 14th, 2016 04:42 am (UTC)
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If someone funding (or participating in) terror on the USA, and their country refusing to turn over those who did it, means that we should consider ourselves in full-on WWII level "at war" with a country-- then that's the majority of the countries in the middle east. And other places.

I know you probably don't have a problem with that, and honestly neither do I, but dancing around and selectively doing it at the bidding of heaven-knows-who is a bad idea. When one's enemy suddenly gives you a good reason to do what you want, it's a traaaaaap.
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From:sianmink
Date:April 15th, 2016 01:24 am (UTC)
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but isn't it true that the Royals are the Kingdom?

They need to get their shit sorted. If they do nothing, it means they approve the behavior.

Edited at 2016-04-15 01:24 am (UTC)
[User Picture]
From:allaboutweather
Date:April 15th, 2016 01:56 am (UTC)
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Kinda like "silence is approval"?
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From:gothelittle
Date:April 13th, 2016 08:41 pm (UTC)
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What I think is funny is that people kept insisting that the war in Iraq was "all about oil", when the country whose oil actually MATTERS to us gets away with all sorts of atrocities.

If we were doing anything other than the opposite of fighting a war for oil, we would have already done *something* about Saudi Arabia. As it happens, we seem to be refusing to fight wars, because of oil...
[User Picture]
From:allaboutweather
Date:April 13th, 2016 10:08 pm (UTC)
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Perhaps we should've went into S.A. rather than iraq and afghanistan. Iraq shouldn't have been a country to begin with (as it is trisected between sunnis, shias and kurds) and no one ever wins a war in afghanistan (ussr anyone).
[User Picture]
From:jordan179
Date:April 14th, 2016 04:00 am (UTC)
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Perhaps we should. Saudi Arabia is still there -- rich, weak and guilty. Let us claim our prize, and count the wails of the Saudis as musical accompaniment.
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From:allaboutweather
Date:April 14th, 2016 01:16 pm (UTC)
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Then there's Pakistan..... how did they not know OBL was hiding less than an hour's drive north of their capital Islamabad and about a kilometer from one of their major military academies?
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From:baron_waste
Date:April 14th, 2016 12:58 am (UTC)
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                Click for Larger Image


        I'd say hang the royals.  Also, we keep the oil fields.  Forever.  They've
        shown they're not mature enough to handle the power that wealth can buy -
        they can just kiss our feet like good little Arabs and thank us every time
        they see us for letting them live.  If they resist after surrender, then
        kill a lot of them until the survivors beg to be allowed to surrender…


That's a masterpiece.  I wonder what language it's being said in…?  Check the arm-bands on the black uniforms for a clue…


                Click for Larger Image

[User Picture]
From:jordan179
Date:April 14th, 2016 04:01 am (UTC)
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Clearly, punishing the guilty is something only Nazis would do, in your deluded mind.
[User Picture]
From:baron_waste
Date:April 14th, 2016 06:07 am (UTC)

'Ethnic Cleansing' Means 'Peace'

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The NSDAP certainly were the most famous for exterminating people based on what they were, regardless of any other consideration…  But obviously they aren't unique.

Saudi TV Host Nadine Al-Budair:  “The Terrorists Emerged from Our Schools and Universities”


        “After the abominable Brussels bombings, it's time for us to feel shame and
        to stop acting as if the terrorists are a rarity,” she said, in an address
        that aired on the Saudi Rotana Khalijiyah TV on April 3…

She must PAY for the crime of EXISTING, atone for it in BLOOD!  She must be driven into the desert to die.  She must pay for her “perfidy”!


        Saudi Author Said Al-Suraihi:  “The Ogre of ISIS
        Emerged from Our History Books”

This guy, too:  Exterminate!  Exterminate!

… I wish my “deluded mind” were right, in what you say.  I'm not getting that impression.


n b  The difference between this and “All men are rapists and that's all they are” or, “Of course he's wrong!  He's a male, isn't he?” - is slight.  When you start thinking in terms of identity politics, the result is inevitable.



Edited at 2016-04-14 06:23 am (UTC)
[User Picture]
From:gothelittle
Date:April 14th, 2016 02:10 pm (UTC)
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlerAteSugar

"You know, I shouldn't have to explain this, but sharing one attribute with Nazis doesn't make you one!"
— Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

A logical fallacy that assumes that anything done or liked by a bad person must be bad itself, taking Not So Different to absurd levels.

The premise seems to be that bad people must have a way to tell if something is evil. Either that, or bad people are repulsed by anything that isn't at least as evil as they are. Whatever the reason, bad people magically will only associate with things that are bad. Therefore people claim a thing is bad because bad people associate with it.
This is a concept called The Association Fallacy,which often overlaps with Godwin's Law, due to how often Adolf Hitler is used for this (also known as Reductio ad Hitlerum). After all, Hitler has gained the reputation for being the very embodiment of darkest evil, who oozed "pure liquid malevolence" right out of his pores. So, he supposedly would only do/like/own things that are as evil as him. Things like sitting on a chair, wearing clothes, eating, taking a walk, and breathing. Hitler did those things, but that doesn't make them bad. Hitler is not a reason things are bad. We don't think mass murder is bad because Hitler, Stalin, or other bad people did them. We think those people are bad because they committed mass murder. In other words, this trope is backwards. A thing being bad stands on its own as bad. It would be like...

Bob: I want to commit genocide.
Alice: The Nazis committed genocide.
Bob: Really? What was I thinking? I can't believe I was going to do something the Nazis did.

This is also one of the reasons why we are often loath to admit that a person who we generally always disagree with may actually be right for once. Remember, Don't Shoot the Message. Someone intimidated by this "argument" may invoke No True Scotsman as a "rebuttal". ("Hitler wasn't a REAL vegetarian.")
[User Picture]
From:little_e_
Date:April 14th, 2016 02:51 am (UTC)
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We've known that since the first time OBL bombed the WTC, back in the Clinton years. It's no secret where OBL came from.
[User Picture]
From:jordan179
Date:April 14th, 2016 04:03 am (UTC)
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Indeed, but the Saudi regime having aided this action is another matter entirely -- and one that should be paid for in blood.
[User Picture]
From:little_e_
Date:April 14th, 2016 06:58 am (UTC)
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Also something I thought had been long well-known. Seemed kind of obvious, anyway.
[User Picture]
From:eta_ta
Date:April 14th, 2016 11:09 am (UTC)
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And that is also known for 15 years.
I recall reading journo investigations in the first aftermath of 9/11, it was well known then. Including hasty evacuation of Saudi princes +women from DC literally hours after, etc, and Bush family connections to them, and his sloppy attempt of defending them, all that "religion of peace" BS.
That wrath and outrage and feeling of betrayal oyu feel now - it's with me since 2001.
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